In our latest Ask a CMO interview, we talked with Josh Martin, CMO of Decision Lens. Decision Lens is a SaaS company that offers integrated planning software that helps government agencies modernize how they prioritize, plan, and fund programs.
CT: How did you get your start in marketing?
JM: My start in marketing was a little unexpected. I began my career as a market research analyst at a company called IDC which does technology research, and I did that for about 10 years. At the tail end of that part of my career, I was focused on building new research services and in order to make them successful it was my responsibility to create awareness and generate clientele. Market research is a mature industry and finding ways to gain breakthrough in a saturated market forced me to invest in demand generation. And that was my initial start. After years of running my own services I took on more traditional marketing roles. I was in sales for a little bit which taught me about the value of marketing, then moved to a product marketing role, which I did for a while and then was in the right place at the right time to take on more marketing responsibilities.
My background in market research was really important for me, and I think it’s been a huge differentiator in my career. Some people start in demand gen, some in product marketing, there’s a lot of ways you can get into marketing. But basing everything you do on what the market needs and relying on a deep understanding of your buyers and customers are critical skills. My experience in market research has allowed me to advance my marketing career in a way that coming up through a specific discipline may not have.
CT: You’ve led Marketing departments for both B2B and B2G companies. What have you found to be the key differences in marketing strategies between the two sectors?
JM: My background is in B2B enterprise software, which is inherently more complicated than selling a consumer product because the sales cycles are long, the costs are high, and you have a diverse buyers’ circle. So, in some ways B2G is similar to B2B customers but there are also a lot more gotchas which render many traditional marketing tactics null and void. For example, you cannot try to motivate anybody with enticements of any sort. For example, a B2B marketing colleague hosted an event where he sent bottles of wine to their top prospects and then had a virtual event with a sommelier. That sounds very engaging, but in B2G you can’t do it. In fact, with a $25 limit on gifts and a very conservative customer base focused on avoiding any issues you can’t even buy someone a coffee or lunch.
And many of the things marketers take for granted are inordinately more complicated. You can build an excellent HTML email, but most of the HTML will be stripped away by government servers, so you must spend a lot of time on the text version of the email and think about how your URLs are going to render. Government marketers have had to find ways to be a lot more creative and a lot more focused on the objectives they’re trying to achieve and find tactics which support their endgame. One of the ways we’ve done this is through events, which are a critical channel for us, and are now fully back. Associations are also an important investment for us. We spend a lot of time identifying associations where our prospects engage, with a focus on local chapters. And we do things to be more involved in the association like volunteer or speak at their lunch and learns.
CT: We can’t do an interview without asking about AI. Have you implemented any AI technologies to support your marketing initiatives?
JM: I’m all in on AI conceptually, but it’s still nascent for accomplishing the really hard stuff we just can’t do yet. For example, we focus on understanding our market which requires a lot of brainpower to identify articles, read and consume that information, and distill it into useful insight for marketing campaigns, outreach, social media posts, etc. So, I began testing a bot which could scrape the web for news and have another bot (trained appropriately) respond to that bot and it’s going to write up a social post and then a third bot (trained as an expert writer in the DL voice) that’s going to post it – and it’s an interesting idea – but the technology just isn’t there yet for it to be seamless and trustworthy. One day, but not today. I’m no expert but I have spent a lot of time training bots, taking classes on AI, and obsessively watching YouTube videos by LLM experts.
Instead, we’ve trained bots on brand voice and tone and then use them to sometimes write an initial post (which is usually 65% of the way there) or conversely to serve as a final editor and reviewer for content a human has written. And there are several other areas where AI has been a great augmentation for us. We use a tool from 11 Labs to train on employees voices and then making edits to voice overs is so much easier. If we update a slide or change something in a demo we simply update the script – re-render the audio and we’re good to go. We’re discussing doing more customized video with prospect names and references because we don’t need a person recording it every time. For that it’s very compelling.
This is where I think AI could be a game changer. I believe AI will turn content into noise much like email has become. I refer to this as contentamageddon – when content is no longer a differentiator. Look at Canva. It’s a fantastic tool – and we use it – but now ever social post or piece of collateral looks pretty good (albeit somewhat similar) making it hard to stand out. Here’s the next step – and it’s actually a step backward. Companies will need to invest hard dollars into activities which many consider old school (direct mail!) but powered by hyper-targeted AI messages. You won’t need a team of field marketers to keep you in the loop because AI will serve that function. The analog channel combined with amazing looking, hyper targeted messaging will be a big differentiator once contentamageddon hits.
It’s a nerve-wracking but also exciting time to be a marketer. We’re going to be pushed in ways we haven’t been before and forced to think creatively to stay ahead of the competition and win that coveted 10 seconds of brainspace a prospect has available.
CT: As the role of Marketing evolves, have you added any new positions to your team that you haven’t needed previously?
JM: We have a small team. I have a demand-gen director, a marketing ops lead, a market researcher and two ISRs. We have not added new roles yet. If our budget allowed me to add more roles, it would probably be junior-level people that can do some of the more tactical work which distracts us today. For example, logistical support for all the events we attend, managing pre-event campaigns, etc..
There are a lot of functions we have a need for, but don’t necessarily need a full-time person to support. So, we’re trying to build out a stable of contractors for things like content development, video production and audio content.
CT: When you are interviewing candidates, what is your go-to interview question?
JM: We’re a small company, so I’m looking for multi-disciplinary skills when I interview candidates. I look for people who are doing things outside of their particular domain and who have the willingness and the humbleness to take on tasks that aren’t part of their core job.
CT: What corporate buzzword would you get rid of forever?
JM: I’m going to go in a counter direction to this question and suggest we not get rid of any buzzwords because I think they provide a succinct way to share information. I’m thinking of “synergy” – it’s an easy one to pick because it’s so overused. But if you don’t want to say synergy, then you’ll have to talk about how well our departments need to work together in an effective way, etc…it’s just a lot of words to say. In some cases, three words will give you six sentences of information.
CT: What did you learn early in your career which has helped you be successful?
JM: I think your personal reputation is critical. When you are known for doing high quality work, putting in the time, putting in the effort, being there and being available, you will be recognized for that. It’s more rare than you might think. To take advantage of your efforts, build a network, and maintain ongoing contact with the people in it. When I have the opportunity to hire people, the first people I always call are the people I’ve worked with. I’ve done it multiple times; I’ll do it again. (Editor’s Note: For more on the importance of reputation, read our recent Ask a CMO interview with Martha Boudreau, AARP’s Chief Communications and Marketing Officer).
CT: If you weren’t in marketing, what would be your dream job?
JM: I think I’d be an entrepreneur. As I’ve gotten older, I’m thinking about things my kids could participate in or maybe something that could impact the local community where I live. After spending a career in tech, doing something more tangible is attractive and appealing. Finding real connections, where I can contribute to the community, is something I think about. I don’t have the idea for what that would be, otherwise I’d probably be doing it now. But starting a business, getting my family involved, getting my friends involved, and trying to provide value to the people around me sounds pretty darned good.
Thank you to Josh for sharing your wisdom and your amazing jacket.
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